Why yes, I am a member of Class Mammalia, thank you for noticing.

[kiya]

So I was reading baratron's journal -- most specifically the most recent two entries (which would be this one and that one), which wound up dropping me off at this link to . . . I guess commentary on one of PETA's more entertaining ad campaigns. (Presuming, that is, that like me you can be easily amused by public displays of rampaging moronity.)

Anyway. I started one of our trademark Weird, Rambling Conversations, this one starting off with my bafflement at the idea of a cultural default of shaving the pelvic region. Hell, most people I know deal with the leg-shaving meme as, "Yes, I know it's expected that I shave my thights, but I'm not gonna bother."

It occurred to me that the removing of body hair strikes me as a process of desexualisation. Given that body hair is a secondary sexual characteristic and all, and also that mannequins and other forms of fake human don't have any. ;) Kevin finds this a little weird, though after I explained it to him he figured he could see where I got there and such.

I'm deeply disturbed by the aspects of culture I see that seem to indicate that the ideal sex partner is a just post-pubescent girl (especially if she has Gigantic Breasts, but that's just one of those delightful inconsistencies I know and love); the lack of strongly visible secondary sexual characteristics is part of that. Especially as it comes coupled with the notion that actual just-barely-post-pubescents should under no circumstances be actually tolerated to be having sex, wherever could they get the idea from? (See also: delightful inconsistencies.)

It seems to be tied into the madonna/whore thing. Hairless = pure = virginal = good = clean. Something like. Weirds me out no end. (I'd add "= artificial" because of the mannequins, but that may be a personal quirk.)

There was more of this, but we finished that aspect of the conversation about two hours ago and went on to marked and unmarked behaviour patterns, discrimination, social awareness, and activism, and I didn't actually finish writing. Oh well. :}

Comments

[sashajwolf.livejournal.com]

*grin* I'm amused that I came to this right after a session with the razor and the chemical depilatory ;-)

I've seen the "shaving as desexualisation" argument before, but my impression is that in the UK at least, it's actually seen as a process of heightening sexualisation (by exaggerating the difference between the two major sexes, I suppose, and given my interest in the femme/butch dynamic, I think that's a part of why I often choose to remove my own body hair). It can be difficult, for instance, to find a beauty parlour that will do a complete waxing, because that's considered kinky (although there was a brief fashion fad for creative pubic hair designs last year, which may have made it easier; for what it's worth, the completely bare look was nicknamed "the American").

[kiya]

Hee. ;)

I don't know it's an argument so much as . . . I suddenly realized that that's how it strikes me when I was talking about it. (I can't see it as an argument beause I'm not actually arguing for anything. For once. ;) ) I find the cultural expectation of same really, deeply weird.

The deeply wacky part about it for me is that this thing that hits me as being desexualising is justified as part and parcel of sexual attractiveness; it seems like one of those strange dualities that's bound up in a lot of approaches to sexuality.

[baratron.livejournal.com]

"Two major sexes"... I like!

I did have things to say about the actual post, but they've mostly been said and I'm not in a coherent mood.

The Ramblings of an Art Student

[keeps.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I agree with the desexualization argument. It seems to me like it enhances the sexuality - by making the genitals visible rather than hidden underneath.

In most pieces of Greek sculpture (http://iws.ccccd.edu/Andrade/WorldLitI2332/Greek/aphrodite.gif) I've seen, the women are as bare as Alan Rickman. They still make things erotic or otherwise (http://web.media.mit.edu/~anjchang/Greece/Athens/54%20-%20Aphrodite,%20Cupid,%20and%20Pan%20-%20Athens%20Museum%20081601.jpg) sexual, but it's not with the genitals. Compare that to Hindu sculpture (which I've seen but not studied, so can't think of anything that turns up good pictures), where generally if it's visible the vulva is defined. They may still have that Indian Barbie figure, but you can also check under the skirt. (Or belt, as is more often the case.) It adds another bit of sexuality to the piece, whether it's meant to be erotic or not, rather than removing some because pubes weren't carved.

It seems to me that, though the Greeks carved smooth skin, the featurelessness is akin to pubic hair. Though you know genitals are underneath, the mass of fur hides it, and keeps it a mystery. Whether that's a good or bad thing is a personal opinion.

Your point about it being a sign of physical maturity is a good one - and you could go farther to say the whole appeal of soft, smooth, youthful skin (which I would say is where shaved everything comes from, since most of that hair is really coarse) follows the whole barely legal teens mentality you describe. But I think you missed an important causality despite putting it in your subject: the whole mindset that humans aren't animals, are more than hairless apes, and having artificial, silky, homogeneous skin is a good thing because it makes you less animal and more human. And in doing that, it increases your sexuality regardless of everything I just spent half an hour typing and linking nicely, just because now you're more of a person and less of a thing - one of which generally has more sexuality in than the other.

Never mind that birds and bees do it too.

[keeps.livejournal.com]

Plus I've been told bare skin on bare skin feels really good.

[mikz.livejournal.com]

I'm not so sure about the "really big breasts" thing, because I haven't seen much of that in the figures that our society likes to type up these days. Breasts were certainly big several decades ago, but so was the whole voluptous body type that I'm generally into. And I've always been a bit of a freak when it comes to the body types I like, which include tummies and big thighs (muscles or fat, both turn me on) and an appreciation for body hair. And attitude. I live the "it's my body and I can do whatever I want with it" attitude... women that have it tend to give off a certain aura that I'm a sucker for.

I guess that's what happens when you don't watch enough television as a kid... =)

[browngirl.livejournal.com]

FWIW, some of the Professionally Done Theory that I've read agrees with you. Some agrees with the people who have said things here such as "it's not desexualization because the removal of hair emphasizes sexuality".

I personally agree with you *and* them; across the broad swath and history of Western Culture (heck, even in a subset such as the US right now) there can certainly be more than one reason, even contradictory reasons, for any given practice, and in reasons I've been given as to why *I* ought to shave (I don't) I have seen several philosophies ranging from desexualizing to emphasizing sexuality to emphasizing being human rather than animal (or being one class of human rather than another).

A.

[keeps.livejournal.com]

...Wow. I was just making all that up on the fly.

[rosefox]

To me, smooth skin emphasizes sensuality--touching something smooth, and being touched on smooth skin, are sensual experiences for a lot of people. It also lends clarity and smoothness to motion, which can make that motion appear more sensual and fluid. Fur has to be long enough to carry its own motion (as with long hair) to be incorporated well into that kind of thing. Otherwise it blurs the lines.

The confusion of sensuality and sexuality is a whole 'nother issue.

[aiglet.livejournal.com]

This amused me, since I once turned to someone with whom I was sharing a shower while I was shaving and asked them if I looked pre-pubescent enough yet. He was shocked speechless for about 30 seconds...

I shave because I don't like the way it looks/feels/smells on me, but then I know that's a personal decision on my part. I think it just *looks* cleaner, plus I don't like putting deodorant or stockings on furry skin.