Odd synchronisities

[kiya]

Best footnote ever:

⁶Victor Anderson gave me these names, with the exception of Sacred Dove, which he called Paraclete. Some students have trouble calling it Dove, thinking that to be Christian imagery, but Victor called Triple Soul alignment "feeding the Dove". One may also call it the Sacred Falcon, using Egyptian imagery if that is more comfortable for you, or God Soul.

(T. Thorn Coyle, Evolutionary Witchcraft, page 46.)

Isn't it funny to come to a revelation and start hiking in that direction, only to find that someone else, someone coming from a completely different direction, has seemingly casually cut a blaze into the tree that defined the sight-line?

Hello, Heru.

. . . the dove descending breaks the air with flame of incandescent terror . . .


(No Thanksgiving content. My bread came out well. Had much food and spent time with people. Very crashy. Consumed by either fire or fire.)

Comments

[shaddragon.livejournal.com]

Ahah, you got the book.

Can't say I follow the reference entirely, but I was glad of her remark on that. Doves just don't do it for me. Falcon fits better. The casual suggestion to change the imagery as needed was the important bit, though. (It's one thing to know you can. It's another to have it idly remarked upon after so many other books that just say 'Do it this way.')

So doves turn up in Kemetic stuff? (Heru?)

[kiya]

"The dove descending" is T. S. Eliot. ;) "Little Gidding".

Heru = Horus.

One of the major issues with Kemetic reconstruction is the question of what to do about the concept of Nisut (Egyptian word for 'Pharaoh' -- 'Pharaoh' derives from per a'a, and is roughly equivalent to a reference to 'The White House' as opposed to being the actual title). In ancient times, the Pharaoh was the linchpin between the seen and unseen worlds, the one who kept the gods in communication with the people, and the people in communication with the gods.

He[*] was able to do this because he had the pharaonic ka (if I've got my soul parts straight here); this kept him with one foot in the seen and one in the unseen -- because the pharaonic ka is an incarnation of Horus.

This is a question that all modern Kemetics have to deal with, the whole "Okay, what is the linchpin between the seen and unseen and, for that matter, where the fuck has it been for the intervening two thousand years?" The Kemetic Orthodox have a Nisut, Rev. Tamara Siuda; the Kemetic Traditionalists have a senior priest and associated priesthood (as, since the Pharaoh couldn't be everywhere in Egypt to perform all the rites everywhere, it was generally held that a properly trained priest could act in his stead as a vessel of the ka); I believe Akhet has a council of priests (similar logic); I don't know what the Veridical Kemetics do.

For various reasons, this is one of the things that I felt a need to work through myself; I spent some time dithering about it, and then I stumbled across Feri and the concept of the God Soul. And I leaned back and said, "I wonder if that works," and started to study.

I hadn't come across the avian imagery before -- my primary knowledge of the souls is from Etheric Anatomy. So I read that bit about the Dove, and was sort of, "Okay, interesting, this is a new image," and then I read the footnote, and said, more or less, "Fuck! A just casual, accidental reference to a sacred falcon in exactly the place where I was looking for Heru!"

[rainfallsautumn.livejournal.com]

The Veridical Kemetics also have a Nisut, which is one of the big reasons I'm not VKF. As I've told Nemtet, I don't care if their Nisut is the nicest nice guy who ever niced, he's *still a Nisut*, and I'm always going to trip right over that idea and fall on my arse. While I admit that a good deal of this post (especially the God Soul) goes winging over my head, I'm curious about that third paragraph. If properly trained priests could serve that function in the days of strict hierarchy and state religion, why can't they do so now? Why a Nisut *at all*? Something else I've wondered... someone recently was talking to me and started a sentence with "if Netjer wants a temple created exactly as they were in the old days..." and my response was "but what makes you think They *do*?" I know that's the Recon argument, that this was how it was done when the will of the Gods reigned in their original culture, but I'm just not sure that equates out to "therefore, do it now, when absolutely everything is different."

Also, when I was in HON and struggling with the whole Nisut thing, I asked Heru if Tamara was the Nisut. He said "yes." But here's what I *didn't* ask... "but does "Nisut" mean the same thing now that it did in AE?" And He just smiled.

[kiya]

If properly trained priests could serve that function in the days of strict hierarchy and state religion, why can't they do so now?

I believe that's what Per Ankh and Akhet say for their structures -- since the spiritual role of the Nisut was semi-ceremonial, with other folks doing the actual day to day work most of the time, they (or at least Per Ankh, which I know more about) didn't worry about establishing the Nisut role, just the priests who were able to act in the name of the Nisut.

I believe fyrekat resolves the situation by considering the role of Nisut to be played by some among the akhu. This one doesn't work for me because the Nisut is the Living Heru, and naming the blessed dead -- even the greatest among them -- as Nisut makes my brain sproink.

A large part of my personal issue with The Nisut Problem is that I do not think that the spiritual role of the job is easily detachable from the national role. And here I'm one of the deeply freaky Kemetics, because I have never been especially interested in Egyptian history -- because most of the treatments thereof are Pharaonic history, and while I wouldn't quite say "that bores me to tears", it's never been terribly appealing. (The King Tut pop culture obsession actively repels me, for that matter.)

But that means that I get tangled up in the crossover stuff, and the nation-and-family things tie my brain in all kinds of knots. (I have both already, thank you. This is also one of the reasons I bounce off some portions of fandom -- the "feeling of being among family" isn't one I can readily relate to, because I get that from my family family.)

syndramise (who left PA a few months ago) posted a while back to talk about a conversation she had with Sekhmet. Who apparently told her to go study at PA to learn the basics so that she could manage a modernist worship with a solid background. (You might be interested in bridgetobeyond, which is nearly entirely inactive -- the only post in it so far is mine.)

Would you like me to explain the Feri end of what I'm blithering about there?

Also, Wepwawet said something about me and Heru last night that I intend to post about soon; I'd be interested in your comments if you wind up having any. :}

[rainfallsautumn.livejournal.com]

Except that PA and Akhet don't have a Nisut-in-title, just leaders who act like that. (Which to me is worse than having one, as PA especially sells itself on "we're the traditional temple with no Nisut")

I'm iffy personally on my interest in Egyptian history. It's there, but for some reason, reading scholarly books about it has been somewhat akin to torture-- and yet I've no trouble reading a scholarly book about *Aztec* religious life, so it's not the "hard book" thing. I think it's that I needed a personal Egyptian religious framework before I went reading about the past (and that's something I've just figured out tonight, incidentally) because I'm so quick to say "they right, me wrong." But I think you're right about the Nisut's roles not being so easily detachable, and that's what makes me wonder about the need for one-- there is no Kemetic nation now, and there probably won't be. I say that because IMO the "Kemetic nation" thing is bound tightly to the Land, the very specific land of Kemet. There will be no true Kemetic nation unless it's actually *in Kemet.*

(People think of fandom as being like family? *shudder* Haven't heard that before, and if I did, I'd probably laugh very hard. Can you imagine "Family_Wank"?) I don't get that from family, and I think *I* bounce off that "like family" notion because by my broken notion of "family," that's *not* a compliment.

I'm extremely interested in the modern-to-ancient midpoint/bridge concept, since that's where I'm being pushed, too. (Interesting that at least four people are getting that at once, isn't it?) Not sure if she'd object to me joining or not, though-- I recall her giving me a "talking-to" on the subject of my Apep-interest when I first joined PA. I shut up about it then, but as He's such a huge part of my spiritual system, I have no intention of dishonoring Him by shutting up about it any longer. Any chance you could ask if me joining would be okay?

Yes, please explain the Feri end if you have a chance, I'm definitely interested. :)

[kiya]

I've read a few general histories of Egypt, all of them after finding the religious end of things; what I'm really actively interested in is the day-to-day life of the common people, so I read that stuff avidly.

The fandom-as-family thing is a very common metaphor/thoughtpattern in general sf fandom; I don't know so much about things like fanfic fandoms and the like, as I have functionally no experience with them.

Attempting to explain the Feri thing; keep in mind I'm working with what I've been able to pick up here and there:

Feri beliefs hold that humans have three souls, and that their proper alignment is critically important for spiritual health -- that they should all be in proper communication with each other, not detached, all healthy, and so on. (This is very like, to me, the discussion of ma'at as having three levels -- the individual, the social, and the cosmic -- each of which has to be healthy and balanced.)

(The workshop I'm attending next weekend is on Triple Soul alignment.)

One soul is the animal soul -- Evolutionary Witchcraft calls it the Sticky One (image: small child that's been out playing in the garden all day). It's primal, passionate, in tune with body and the natural world -- not terribly verbal, but easily engaged with beauty, ritual practice, motion and closely linked to physical health.

One soul is the Shining Body, which is closely linked with the aura; it's also a communicator, an information processor, something that produces clarity of thought, action, and perception, as well as connection out into the rest of the world and other people.

The third soul is the God-Soul. I'm not sure how to explain it -- the location is akin to the halo on Christian icons. It's the spark of the divine carried by humans, the tie between human and divine worlds.

Does that provide enough useful context?

[rainfallsautumn.livejournal.com]

Yes, it does, and it will take some time to assimilate. So your point about the God-Soul... is that people have the necessary "spark" to fulfill the Nisut-function for themselves, or did I misunderstand? I think I may have to buy that book, I'm finding what you're describing quite interesting indeed. (And I saw it at Borders just this week, too. Wish I'd bought that instead of The Second Circle, since I've so far been repeatedly tempted to throw that book across the room.)

As for fanfic fandom, not that I've seen, but my three main fandoms (SW, Stargate, and Harry Potter) are *huge*. Stargate's the smallest, but I'm not very involved in it, since Goa'uld-supporters aren't looked upon very kindly.

[kiya]

That's where I'm trying to go with it, or trying to work out how to go with it -- I don't have the training to make a proper system out of it, I've just got a bunch of pieces that I think fit together and no guidebook. (Which is why I was ringing up Set's answering machine last night, in case He nicked my bloody blueprints.)

And I'm there wrestling with the question, and poking at the concept to see if it works with what I'm hoping it'll work for, and she just drops in a, "If you're not comfortable calling it the Sacred Dove, call it the Sacred Falcon". It was like playing peekaboo with Heru, and that's really very disturbing.

[rainfallsautumn.livejournal.com]

Ahhhh. The God-Soul is the Sacred Dove? I thought you meant that was *someone's* name. Now I understand. :)

And that last sentence seems about right for Dad. He seems to like being... oblique, for lack of a better word.

[rainfallsautumn.livejournal.com]

*rereads* Oh. Yes, that was there all along, wasn't it? Mmph.

[kiya]

Forgot my footnote:

While there were several female pharaohs, they all presented, officially, as male.

[shaddragon.livejournal.com]

> A just casual, accidental reference to a sacred falcon in exactly the
> place where I was looking for Heru!"

Ahah. Okay, I follow you now. And that is rather convenient, isn't it? Love them coincidences.

And that sort of idea is exactly why I'd never be able to put up with a 'formal' style Kemeticism -- I'm not at all surprised you aren't either, of course. ;) The very notion of finding the connection to 'other' outside oneself makes me bristle and wander off in another direction.

Any notes on how the Egyptians felt about female pharoahs? And what it is that let the females become pharoahs in the first place? (Not just 'how they qualified' but 'how the culture handled the idea,' I mean.)

[kiya]

It was one of those, ". . . okay, it's kinda cool to see someone just casually point out the goal I was aiming for all this time as an incidental waypoint. . ." moments.

I don't actually recall much about the female pharaohs other than that they existed; they tended to take the throne when there were no male heirs (and IIRC were often the ends of dynasties). I believe it was Hatshepsut who was the regent when her very young son was the nominal pharaoh and more or less usurped his position over time. (My history is very thin; one of the reasons I didn't fall into Kemeticism earlier is, I suspect, my world-spanning lack of interest in things like pharaonic history.)

They were presented in the full pharaonic regalia in all of the representations (including the strap-on beard). If comparisons to other African civilisations which have had female kings within recent times hold true, she probably kept a harem of pretty (possibly cross-dressing) boys.

It reminds me a bit of papersky's concept for a novel in which sex change is a trivial thing, and there is women's work and men's work very clearly. . . (I wonder if she's writing that. I think it was an Austen riff.)